Police Life: The Experts podcast - Season 2 Episode 6: Following the money transcript

A local detective and a forensic accountant team up to bring down a scammer who was behind a Ponzi scheme that fleeced millions of dollars from everyday victims.

Listen to this episode and other episodes of Victoria Police's official podcast, Police Life: The Experts.

Transcript of Police Life: The Experts podcast, Season 2 Episode 6: Following the money

Voiceover: You’re listening to Police Life: The Experts, a Victoria Police podcast shining a light on our people and their extraordinary skills.

[Suspenseful music playing behind speaking]

Newsreader 1:The man admitted to spruiking a cryptocurrency ponzi scheme.

[Quick static sound]

Newsreader 2: The mastermind of the massive fraud has been jailed for at least seven years.

[Quick static sound]

Newsreader 3: An investment scam that fleeced investors of more than $3.5 billion

[Suspenseful music builds, then fades out]

Voiceover: Financial crime is an arms race between the crooks and the police. Fraud online and in the physical world is booming in Victoria.

Joella Gould: The nature of crime continues to evolve. We’ve seen more financial crime, we’ve seen more cybercrime. The criminals have professional advisers helping them – really, the police need the same.

Voiceover: That’s why Victoria Police has invested in an elite team of forensic accountants to help investigators bring offenders to justice.

It’s a specialised kind of crime fighting team, dedicated to following the money.

Joella Gould: My name is Joella Gould. I'm a senior forensic accountant with Victoria Police. I've been with Victoria Police in this role for eight years.

[Sound of phone dialling tone]

One of the joys I get from this job is that we get a name and a phone number when a matter comes across our desk, we make a phone call, and you get somebody on the other end of the phone who is very outcome focused, very passionate about their work, very compassionate about the victims that they're trying to help.

[Sound of call being picked up]

Det Sgt Drew Corry: My name's Drew Corry. I'm a detective sergeant, attached to the Criminal Proceeds Squad. I've been a member of Victoria Police for 14 years.

[Sound of call being hung up]

Det Sgt Drew Corry: I wasn't even aware of, the Forensic Accounting Unit prior to this job and one of my colleagues who had had experience with them, said they were great to deal with, and extremely valuable to his investigation. So, I filled out a request for assistance, and the rest is history.

[Suspenseful music]

Voiceover: It looked like a minor fraud matter, but the deeper Drew Corry dug, the bigger it became.

It was a Ponzi scheme, one of the oldest and simplest of scams. Investors are lured with the promise of sky-high returns, the pyramid grows but the new investors are paying the returns of the early ones, until inevitably the scheme collapses.

All this was ahead of Drew, who was working at the time as a local detective in Melbourne’s western suburbs. The call from Joella Gould signalled the start of a much larger and more complex investigation.

Joella Gould: What we get then is a very brief form coming from the detective who has requested assistance with an outline of the matter and a name and a phone number to call.

The initial conversation we usually have with investigators, we can usually get a fair idea of how experienced they are with financial crime or whether this is one of their first investigations in this field. We can ask questions about what avenues of inquiry they've tried, whether they've got bank statements, whether they've got tax office information.

Can you just tell me what I'm looking at and explain to me what the setup is, what the offence is? Where do I start with this? Drew was a little further advanced. He had witness statements, he had descriptions of schemes operating and he had some bank statements to look at. So that was a great starting point.

Voiceover: It began as a trickle of information for Drew Corry – Joella Gould helped him turn that into a torrent of evidence. Together they uncovered a multi-million-dollar Ponzi scheme. Their operation in 2016 was codenamed Floodgate, a name randomly generated by a computer.

Det Sgt Drew Corry: I didn't choose the name Operation Floodgate, it was pure coincidence. Yeah, the irony wasn't lost on me, it was, yeah it was huge.

Voiceover: It might seem an unlikely crime busting team, the detective, and the chartered accountant. But Victoria Police’s Forensic Accounting Unit is full of professionals like Joella Gould, whose skills complement the detectives they work with.

Joella Gould: We keep getting asked, 'Are you real accountants?' Yes, we're real accountants. We are chartered accountants and CPAs, and we bring a background of experience with us, and that's what we contribute.

It was a mid-career change. Before this, I was in a public accounting firm for 21 years in largely an audit role and I thoroughly enjoyed that.

I spent decades in audit and auditors are under appreciated. Very much underappreciated people. Companies and businesses get audits done a lot because they have to. And it's seen as something to be endured and hopefully come out the other side with preferably as little feedback as possible and as little cost as possible and move on.

The difference here is I can give somebody like Drew, a spreadsheet, and I get this experience over and over again, and for the investigator it is you see that relief, it is like Christmas to them. You get an instant feedback that you've helped them in their role and helped them in their job.

There are 13 forensic accountants with Victoria Police. Two of the Forensic Accounting Unit members are embedded permanently with the Criminal Proceeds Squad. The remainder of the unit are available as a statewide resource to all squads, all criminal investigation units across the state.

We have people who are sworn members and became accountants and moved across into the Forensic Accounting Unit, but they have had a very strong investigations background.

We have people who've come through other agencies, like the tax office and ASIC. We have people like myself coming out of public accounting, with audit or liquidations or tax backgrounds, and we have people coming from banking and finance, and insurance investigations.

So it's a wonderful broad skill set that we have that lets us tackle a wide variety of matters, not just financial crime, but we also help out with homicides and drugs matters and pretty much anything with a financial aspect to it.

Det Sgt Drew Corry: I was an investigator at the Wyndham Crime Investigation Unit, so a regional detective office. And part of my duties at that time was to investigate reported crime, as well as detect crime as well. A wide range of crime being assaults, burglaries but also frauds, coroner's investigations as well. So a real wide range of investigation.

I can remember what I was looking at, it was an investigation into a possession of illegal firearms. So I was looking at that job at the time that my sergeant gave me this job to have a look at. And he had a manilla folder, and he handed it to me and said, 'I'm going to give this to you'. He said it was a potential deception, possibly a civil matter, value of about $60,000, might need to reach out to the complainants and have a chat to them and find out some more info. Have a look and see where you go.

Voiceover: From the file Drew had the basic narrative, complaints from four people that they had been ripped off by a friend named Maria Elena Redubla.

Det Sgt Drew Corry: Maria was a 42-year-old female residing in the St Kilda area. She resided there with her partner and was of Filipino descent. So Maria worked for a company called Headstart International that regularly dealt with large retail consumers; Coles, Woolworths, and the like.

It was alleged that Maria had, basically said to the complainants that she, because of her position in the job that she was doing, she was able to receive a discount on certain gift card purchases.

So what she said to her victims was that if they gave her X amount of dollars for a group of gift cards, they received a 10 per cent discount on that purchase. They were then able to on-sell those gift cards for a discount of say, five per cent, and then they would make that profit of five per cent themselves.

Voiceover: It sounded plausible until Drew contacted Maria’s employer, Headstart International.

Det Sgt Drew Corry: When I reached out to Headstart, they confirmed that 'Well, no, we don't offer any discounts to employees, consumers, that doesn't happen'. So when you start getting those little bits of information, it starts to corroborate 'Okay, well, maybe it is a fraud. Maybe the victims are, yep, on the money here with something like that'. So it firms up that belief that it's a fraud.

Spoke to Coles, Woolworths, Harvey Norman, representatives from each, you know, obtained written statements from them locking in that 'We don't offer any such discounts to these particular schemes'. I provided them with copies of some of the emails, some of the invoices that were shown to the victims, confirmed with Coles, Woolworths that that they were false invoices. We're moving away from civil here, now we're looking at there's potentially documents being altered, and going into more of a criminal space.

She essentially ripped off all her friends, taken the money from her friends and spent it all. Without sugarcoating it, that's where it was looking. I wanted to get some banking information, so I was able to identify what banks Maria was banking with, obtained search warrants, and started looking through bank statements and banking material. Again, corroborating that she was receiving money from these people and trying to find out where that money went.

I invited Maria in for an interview and she provided a version of events, and that particular version of events was that it was civil, that she'd started up this company, that these people willingly gave her money, they're all friends and it's a big misunderstanding.

Yes, stuff gone wrong throughout her business venture, and she wanted to give the money back but was unable to. And at that time, again, I hadn't had a lot of challenge material to put to Maria, it was just essentially 'This is what the investigation is at this stage, what do you say to these allegations?' and she gave that version of events.

She was dressed like an everyday person, like someone who had just come out of her work office, politely well-spoken, very engaging and very willing to, nearly overly willing to explain. 'Oh, no, no, this is all above board, and I'm willing to help out as much as I can', which is a little bit of a flag sometimes in itself. I wouldn't say I had doubts from the beginning. It's like any investigation you go where the evidence points.

Voiceover: Drew was trying to decide whether this matter was civil or criminal. To do that, he had to understand the evidence.

Det Sgt Drew Corry: I'm looking at all these lines of transactions and I'm going, 'This is beyond my scope, I'm not an accountant, I'm a copper.'

[Suspenseful and atmospheric music begins]

I could see that there were some large transactions going in, but that only paints part of the picture. I needed help, I couldn't do it myself.

Joella Gould: People go into accounting thinking it's about numbers, and really what you need is a good set of communication skills. The numbers tell you a story, your job is to be able to communicate what that story is to people who might not be so good at numbers, or might not have an accounting background, but need to understand the message that you're telling them.

So when you're looking at a set of numbers there is always context, it's no good looking just at the outflows out of a bank account without looking at where the money's come from going into that bank account. You need to see the whole picture and the whole story, but your big skill – your key skill – is in being able to communicate that without the jargon in a very plain way that everybody can understand.

[Suspenseful music build and plays behind speaking]

Voiceover: That’s when Joella came into the picture. Maria’s story was that she had set up a company that was a vehicle for the legal gift card business with her employers Headstart. The bank transactions told a different story.

Joella Gould: From an accountant's point of view, we get very excited about debits and credits and things balancing and being able to present things. Just a lot of data distilled down to something that's very simple and easy to understand.

We start with Maria's explanation, and we keep an open mind and we test that explanation. So Maria said that she'd set up a company and it was a legitimate business, and so we started having a look at what the activities of that company were. It was a registered business, but there were no transactions going through the bank account. So that's a good indication that it's really not an operating business.

We had a look at the tax records for that business to see, if it was a legitimate business it should be lodging tax returns and it should have some robustness around the transactions flowing through that business. Instead, what we saw was money coming from these investors going into Maria's personal bank accounts. I think she ended up with 27 bank accounts, which I found astounding because I couldn't manage 27 bank accounts, I wouldn't know where I was up to.

As I was going through the bank accounts, I could see a whole lot of other names coming in as deposits, and people in a community will give other people money for various reasons and they could be private arrangements, loans, paying for dinner out, but this indicated a lot of money. We're talking hundreds of thousands of dollars coming into Maria's bank accounts from individuals. And that suggested that what Drew was seeing with the first four complainants was potentially a lot bigger.

I could see that Drew had some real challenges with this investigation that you don't normally see. We were dealing with people for whom English was a second language, there were documents that were half in English and half in Filipino. So that was a challenge for him to get those translated.

[Soft blast sound]

Det Sgt Drew Corry: Trust was a huge part of the offending, particularly in this matter. So a lot of the victims were lifelong friends, or had known Maria for 10 plus years, and Maria exploited that trust in order to get them to sign up to the schemes.

Voiceover: Four victims had now grown to 17. Drew’s $60,000 deception case was now at $2.4 million and Maria was still active, roping in new investors.

Det Sgt Drew Corry: She was still contacting people trying to get more money out of them. And it was up to myself to sort of just say to the victims 'Make sure you do not give her any money' and I remember at one point ringing up her representatives and saying, 'Can you tell her to stop calling people and trying to get money out of them?'.

Voiceover: Joella had shown this was a simple Ponzi scheme. Maria was duping friends by initially paying returns on their investments, but these funds were coming from new investors – Joella’s spreadsheets told the story.

Det Sgt Drew Corry: Joella was able to dumb it down to my level. Joella would provide me with a heap of spreadsheets and say, 'This is where the reported funds are. This is what's actually going through the account', in a manner that I was able to go, 'Right, I can establish offences here'. Corroborating what the victims were saying to me as well.

Voiceover: Police now knew where Maria’s money was coming from. Joella and Drew were able to show how it was spent.

Joella Gould: The amount of income Maria was declaring through her tax returns was around about $50,000 a year. And so across the five years, it would have totalled about $250,000. And that correlated to the salary and wages deposits we were seeing coming from employers into her bank accounts.

But the total amount we were seeing as inflows into her bank accounts across those five years actually totalled about $6 million.

[Sound of electronic notes in background]

So there's a big difference between what she's declaring as her income and the cash flow coming into her bank accounts. And Maria’s general standard of living didn't stand out from what you would say would be normal or expected on a $50,000 income, except that we had $2.6 million of cash withdrawals and money coming in was regularly withdrawn in cash and quite often at Crown Casino.

[Upbeat electronic music plays behind speaking]

Voiceover: Maria had spent so much time and money at Melbourne’s Crown Casino, she was a member of the invitation-only Black Signature Club. She had put more than half a million dollars through the poker machines using her card, that was recorded. When Maria was using cash to gamble, that was not recorded. But her attendance at the casino suggested she was a compulsive, problem gambler.

Det Sgt Drew Corry: Another inquiry that I made was with the parking. So she was parked at the casino for a good 330 days of the year, thereabouts. So it suggested that she was actually putting through a lot more than what was being reflected in those reports.

Joella Gould: The numbers usually tell a story. The flow through of transactions, through bank accounts and people's bank accounts give you a good sense of where they're spending the money. Some people put it into assets, some people just are living a great lifestyle, with holidays and entertainment, some people, have a gambling problem.

The gamblers you can see very clearly, it's compulsive and all of this goes to the motivation of why people commit frauds in the first place. There's a motivation, there's a rationalisation, and there's an opportunity. And you can often see that story told through the analysis of the numbers and the flow through the bank transactions.

Det Sgt Drew Corry: One of the big things about a fraud investigation is preventing more people from getting hurt, preventing victims giving over more money. And that was one thing that became pretty apparent was that there's other people involved in this. And I needed basically act as fast as I could to stop them from handing over any more money.

Because at the time, victims were coming to me saying, 'We think so-and-so is involved, they might be losing money as well'. There was a big thing where Maria projected that this wasn't available to everyone that, you know, 'Come with me, and I can make sure we can make this work'. You know, 'Give me your money. You can trust me. I've got these contacts. If you trust me, it's all going to work'.

Voiceover: To fuel her gambling addiction, Maria needed a constant flow of money and duped her victims with promises and created fake documents to back them up.

Det Sgt Drew Corry: She was quite savvy on the computer. She was able to find out who the CEO of the company was. She was then able to create Hotmail addresses in the same name as the CEO and then have conversations between herself and the CEO on Hotmail.

She then showed the victims each of these email chains conversations, which were along the lines of, 'Hi, Maria, got the next purchase of gift cards coming, I need to know by the end of today who's involved so they don't miss out'. Maria would then show that to the victims and say, 'Look, look, this is from, the CEO of the company, I need to know now'.

The victim would give Maria a lump sum of money, say $10,000, and that would be for say, six months. 'I'll give you this, $10,000 for six months’ worth of gift cards that would then be on-sold and the profits would be made'. And during that six-month period, Maria would be showing them graphs, spreadsheets of how the profits were going – all doctored, all made by her – as well as emails with regards to how well everything's going.

And all the while, this interest that’s being earned and the profits that are being earned are being drip fed back to the victim say every second week. So they might she might get $200 back and go, 'This is your profit for this week'. Then two weeks later, 'Oh, this is your profit for the next week', might be $300 and then it gets to that end of the cycle where Maria says, 'Right, you can either withdraw your $10,000 capital that you were initially invested in it, or I've got another scheme coming up, which is actually a year. It's more than $10,000, it’s $50,000, but the returns are much higher'.

And then the victims again, having seen the spreadsheets, having received a couple of hundred dollars, that, in essence, was their own money that they'd initially given to her thought, 'Yeah, okay', and they would scrounge the money together. Some of them had to take out loans, mortgages and the like to be able to fund it and give that extra money to Maria. And then the cycle repeated with the same thing.

Voiceover: Scammers like Maria require an element of truth in their pitches to unsuspecting victims, but it’s only a veneer.

[Glass crashing sound plays]

Det Sgt Drew Corry: So a good lie is just a slight bending of the truth, so to speak. I confirmed that Maria had indeed purchased gift cards from Woolworths and Coles, which worked out really well because that’s what Joella was seeing in her initial analysis. But another thing I noticed that in purchasing these cards, she was using the receipts to doctor the amount that she was purchasing and showing that to the victim. So she's purchasing 500 gift cards or gift cards to the value of $500, she would then scan that and put extra zeros on there and show that to the victims to get them on board.

I was very comfortable that I had enough evidence there to proceed with charges against Maria for those first four complainants. One of the things that was becoming apparent was Maria had connections in the United States as well as the Philippines. Once she became aware that there was potential charges pending, that she might take off overseas and that really impacted, the way I proceeded with the investigation.

I sat down with my sergeant at the time, we discussed some strategies, and we came to the conclusion that we would interview Maria a second time, put some of the further evidence that I had collated to her, and then charged her with respect to the first four complainants. So, after speaking to Joella, I became aware that there was so much material.

The gift cards was just one element, but they generally all had the same principle. There was investments called co-op, weekly production, all different names pitched to each of the complainants. And as the investigation grew, it became apparent that one lot of victims would be dealing with Maria, she would then ask them if they had friends or family that would like to invest.

[Suspenseful music begins]

Voiceover: No one was off-limits to Maria, even a terminally ill colleague.

Det Sgt Drew Corry: Maria was well aware of that person and his illness. So Maria saw that as an opportunity to get him on board with one of the schemes, and then unfortunately he passed away. Maria saw another opportunity to exploit his widow as well. She explained that she would offer a special, higher rate of interest that she would be earning, that she was going to need support.

Voiceover: Maria fleeced more than $52,000 from this man and his widow.

Det Sgt Drew Corry: I think, like every human being, I was fairly incensed that someone could do that to another human, particularly a vulnerable human as well.

Voiceover: It was time to bring Maria in again and shut her criminal schemes down for good.

[Suspenseful music ends abruptly with a flourish]

Det Sgt Drew Corry: I interviewed Maria at the Melbourne West Police Station. I attended her workplace and arrested her there. I bought Maria in myself, and Detective Sergeant Williams at the time. Again, offered Maria an opportunity to clarify anything from her previous version of events and this time though, loaded with financial material and analysis from Joella, I was able to actually put that challenge material to Maria and say, 'Well actually Maria, you're telling me one thing, but your bank statements and financials are telling me another thing'.

Maria changed her story, changed it to suit whatever I was telling her, there was a legitimate reason for it and it got to the point where I was saying to Maria, 'You said earlier that you get this reduction or discount on gift cards from your company Headstart that liaise with Coles, is that right?' Maria said, 'Yep, yep, that's exactly right'.

I would then show a written statement from Coles and Headstart saying, 'At no point have we given Maria Redubla a discount on any gift cards' and Maria would then change her story and go, 'Oh no, no, no, I didn't mean I didn't mean Coles, I meant someone else. Oh no, I got the gift card, they’re mistaken, they’ve got it all wrong'.

Because I had concerns that she was going to flee overseas, and whilst I was aware that there were going to be a lot more victims after having spoken to Joella, confident that I had enough evidence to proceed with charges in relation to those four victims, I charged her. And part of her conditions of bail was to surrender her passport and have reporting conditions so that I could then keep tabs and ensure that she hadn’t indeed taken off overseas.

Voiceover: Maria was facing charges over the first four complainants and could not leave Australia. With those cases in the courts, Drew and Joella had time to work on seeking justice for the other 13 victims.

Joella Gould: There was a large number of charges, a huge number. I think there was over 700 charges – 724 charges – that had to be laid. And they were all transaction based, and they might end up rolled up and based on a time period at the end. But initially, the accused has to be presented with each transaction to give them an opportunity to dispute that and to defend against that. So Drew needed data to be able to write his charges, and that means identifying the exact deposit, the date, the amount accurately, and which investor that came from so that he could write his charges.

Det Sgt Drew Corry: Every transaction needs a charge. So on this date, at this time, at this location the offender committed a deception against person A. And then you have all the evidence around that, so whether it be footage, whether it be analysis, statements, that sort of thing in relation to that charge. And that's where that 724 charges come from. There was 724 lines of transaction that I was able to say to Joella, 'Can you help me frame this and get it in a manner that I can read it and understand it so that I can put my charges together?' So again, without Joella’s expertise and help, this wouldn't have gone anywhere.

Voiceover: Drew then put all the allegations to Maria in a third and final interview.

Det Sgt Drew Corry: So that third interview with Maria was in regard to the 13 other victims and that was after Joella had gone through her analysis, completed her analysis, I gathered all the evidence in relation to the brief, and essentially put those allegations to her with respect to those other victims. It followed a very similar path to the previous interviews except this time it was more of a ‘no comment’ type thing as opposed to changing all the time to the questions.

And that's the way I think I framed it at the time, that Maria preyed upon her victims. She knew their financial circumstances, she knew their personal circumstances, and used that in order to complete the offending. In terms of the way I felt, it's, I suppose, more motivation to make sure that the job's done properly, that she's held to account for something as callous as that.

At no stage throughout the investigation did Maria accept any responsibility, did she acknowledge that she’d done anything wrong. I think by the time I'd done that interview, Maria was aware of the gravity of the situation, and had started to realise that she was in a fair bit of trouble. Not only that too, I believe at the time she might have been terminated from her employment as a result. She lost a lot of friends, she was told that she would not contact any of her friends.

I suppose a common theme throughout the investigation was teamwork, obviously with Joella, but with other the other investigators in the office, you know these jobs don't just happen from me, they require the support of a lot of people. So without the support of my colleagues within the office, the guidance that I got from my sergeants at the time, we'd never have got to the point where we would have been able to, charge Maria with the volume of offending that we did.

Voiceover: The evidence against Maria Redubla was overwhelming, yet she maintained her innocence. It looked like Drew and Joella would have to give evidence at a trial to finish the job.

Joella Gould: As a forensic accountant, our duty to the court overrides absolutely everything else. We might work for Victoria Police, but we take that duty to the court very seriously on our daily work. So if we are not seeing evidence that supports the allegations, we have no hesitation telling the investigator that it's not supported, we're not seeing it. We do not accept any interference with our statements.

For anybody, going to court is a nerve-wracking experience. You're putting your professional standards on the line, you’re putting your professional reputation on the line, and that will get challenged. Most of the work we do as accountants is factually based, it doesn't take an expert to say 'Money went from bank account A to bank account B', but it can very quickly move from that in questioning to asking us about general ledgers and how they work.

Asking us about banking payments and tapping into our previous 20 years of accounting experience and that's where you step up as a witness, as an expert to help the court. It's not a comfortable process, but it's certainly a necessary process.

Det Sgt Drew Corry: This is a very long and drawn-out process. Not just in the brief compilation and the initial investigation. Going through the court judicial system took a long, long time for a number of reasons. One of those is that we had two separate matters in the committal stream that had to come up, come together with each other. Maria rocked up on some occasions to court without representation or she changed representation. Every time you change representation you know, they need a chance to be able to review the brief, review the evidence, which takes time – it was a big brief, you can't take that away.

She finally got representation, through the courts. She obviously got legal advice to say the evidence was fairly overwhelming and in the judicial process there's a benefit to accepting an early plea as opposed to taking something to trial. Taking something to the trial is a significant cost to the taxpayer. If you enter a plea, stop the victims going through the trauma of having to get up and give evidence, there are certain, I suppose, benefits or discounts you can get in terms of sentencing, and that's ultimately what she chose to do.

Voiceover: Finally in December 2018, almost three years after Operation Floodgate began Maria Redubla pleaded guilty in the County Court to all charges.

Det Sgt Drew Corry: Maria was sentenced to six years and seven months imprisonment. I felt that it was appropriate and within range for the offending. To say that I was happy with the result is probably not a good reflection. To be able to be happy with the result, I would have liked to have been able to give something back to the victims in terms of their money, in terms of some of their property. At the end of the day, yes Maria was sentenced, she was held accountable for what she did, but you’ve still got 17 people that lives are potentially ruined or changed as a result of the offending. So happy's probably not the word.

Joella Gould: There were no assets to recover in this matter – we didn't find any assets. The money was mostly withdrawn in cash and once it's in cash, we can't do very much with that. But certainly, there was no indication that there are any assets to chase.

Det Sgt Drew Corry: This job wouldn't be possible without Joella and her experience and expertise in this. Not only in analysing the data that was given to her, but pointing me in the direction of charges, of other victims as well, that would have would have been missed had it not been for her analysis. These relationships that are built with forensic accountants, and others within the organisation, they're imperative to the success of these types of jobs.

Joella Gould: There's always more to job satisfaction than just the take-home pay. Job satisfaction comes from knowing that your work is worthwhile and is valued, and you're making a contribution, and I get that in spades in this role. I get that immediately coming from the investigators, but I also know that the work that the Forensic Accounting Unit does equips Victoria Police with being able to tackle financial crime.

It would be unreasonable to expect somebody who's joined the police force, your average copper, to know everything about financial crime. But it is great that Victoria Police has the resources that they're encouraged to put up their hand and say, 'Help. I don't understand what I'm looking at', and that help will be given.

[Upbeat music begins]

Voiceover: Each year, more than half a million Victorians fall victim to some kind of personal fraud or scam. The offenders are often online and overseas beyond the reach of state police. And victims count the cost of trusting returns that are too good to be true. It’s a fast-growing category of crime.

Det Sgt Drew Corry: I would say it's a fair chunk of your work out in the regions – fraud, deception. As time goes on crime evolves, offenders evolve, they find new ways to essentially fund whatever they need to fund.

Voiceover: As Maria’s case showed, the investigations are often long and complex. In earlier times, Operation Floodgate might not have happened. Now Victoria Police has the resources and the skills to tackle offenders like Maria Redubla and to limit the damage they wreak on society.

Joella Gould: The nature of crime continues to evolve so we've seen more financial crime, we've seen more cybercrime, and I think the policing of that continues to evolve with that. As you look at the resourcing and traditional methods of policing, you start to look at what else you need in the skills mix because the criminals have professional advisers helping them, really the police need the same on their side to help them work through investigations.

You get some of the larger matters, that take a couple of years to work through on and off, which are just a huge volume of transactions, it might be 30 or 40,000 lines of bank data that we have to work through and analyse. But then sometimes it's some of the smaller matters that the story of the victim’s is just so sad it stays with you.

The financial crime is something that everybody in society is batting away on a daily basis, and it's just increasing. And it's not victimless – this changes people's lives, it can be absolutely devastating for them. People keep finding new ways to defraud their family, their friends, and society. So as every new payment system comes across, as business keeps changing, we have to keep evolving with that to be able to respond and understand and the allegations. So it keeps it interesting and it keeps it new and fresh.

Voiceover: Police Life: The Experts is a Victoria Police production.

Your host is Belinda Batty.

This episode was written by Adam Shand.

Additional writing and research by Jesse Wray-McCann.

It was produced by Adam Shand and Jesse Wray-McCann.

The senior producer was Ros Jaguar.

Audio production and original music by Mat Dwyer.

Theme song by Veaceslav Draganov.

Executive producer was Beck Angel.

This podcast was created by the Media, Communications and Engagement Department at Victoria Police.

To learn more about the work of Victoria Police, go to police.vic.gov.au.